The Gym Interview
My brother and I have some interesting conversations. Being intelligent, articulate, educated, opinionated, and a combined IQ of over 300, we believe our conversations are fodder for great interest amongst the masses.
Recently we were discussing weight lifting, the gym, and masculinity, this is the resultant interview.
Timothy says:
Lets start with the basics.
What do you look for in a gym? Is it the equipment, is it the other trainees, is it the amount of good looking ladies in skimpy clothes?
Patrick says:
I personally find it good to have someone who is doing a similar program to yourself, as you tend to keep each other motivated. If one of you can't be arsed, but the other can, the other may convince them to come along. Another day the roles may be reversed.
Equipment is very important, you're paying quite a bit of money, and there are plenty of gyms out there, you may as well find one that has exactly what you're after.
The amount of good looking ladies aides in motivation, but tends to make the gym go-err spend a disproportionate amount of time on bench and biceps. So it's a mixed blessing. What about yourself?
Timothy says:
Well I've moved out of the commercial gym environment, to the home gym. I do miss the eye candy, the camaraderie of fellow lifters. But I don't miss the idiot trainers, newbie’s extolling the virtues of Muscle and Fiction training routines, and the focus on unproductive exercises.
I always look for good basic equipment, and most modern gyms seem to focus on attracting the "new to the gym" crowd who want machines to make things safe. This combined with commercial radio tunes really makes home training ideal for me.
Patrick says:
What is your opinion on 'hard-men' who are punching the entire stack on that upright seated bench press machine over there?
Timothy says:
If grunting is involved, and back slapping from training partners, I'd say wieners. If they are doing it as a super set isolation exercise with a free weight bench, then that’s fine. So they are all wieners.
Patrick says:
What about the free weights versus machines debate?
Timothy says:
Machines are Ok but they are one dimensional. Milos of Create (the first recorded weight lifter) trained old school using cows. Nowadays we have barbells and dumbbells but they are essentially load for the muscles to lift. Machines load the muscles too but not in the same way.
And if you want to get in shape there is no excuse.
If you want to be hard-men you have to lift weights, big weights. Machines just don't cut it, they are part of the excuse of pretend exercise. Barbells and dumbbells are just ways to hold onto the weight (= good), machines are a way to move (= bad).
Pat, as the only person I know that has benched more than body weight on their first trip into the gym, how important is strength and relative strength to you?
Patrick says:
If you are motivated by vanity, then who really cares how strong you are? Pump yourself up with Creatine or something similar. You can just fabricate strength results later anyway. I myself am much more inclined towards relative strength and going to the gym for strength gain. Such as; I go to the gym to be better at footy, or similar. This is what separates self-improvement from self-masturbation.
Timothy says:
Agreed!
Do you see the lack of serious trainees and trainers (PT's or personal trainers) at the gym as a hindrance to your training?
Patrick says:
With PT's it is a pity, and this applies to a lot of different professions, that sometimes you tend to get people who aren't very intelligent, or perhaps unmotivated to learn new things, handing out a lot of advice and noted as the expert to the general public.
I think the reason there isn't an overall consensus about weights programs and strength gains is that the industry is filled with a lot of non-intellectuals. Imagine switching the engineering industry and the gym industry over for a month or two. We would have detailed equations and machines that would analyze your body shape and size, and work out the exact program to maximise your strength/appearance returns for the minimum input, no matter who you are. A governing body would be formed, training standards put in writing, and it would be quite amazing. Of course, as the gym people have become the engineers, the buildings to house these modern and wondrous gymnasiums would have no supporting walls, uneven foundations, some rooms with nothing in them and others crammed full, and building codes would now involve conflicting invalidated erroneous guidelines.
Timothy says:
Completely agree. The people teaching the gym trainers, and thus new trainees, are the same people. They then teach and perpetuate the myths in the gym.
Patrick says:
Exactly! People have been working out for centuries, surely the knowledge pool should be expanding and being perfected, not getting cloudy and mythological.
As for a lack of serious trainees, it doesn't really affect me, except when some guy is doing some ridiculous swiss-ball exercise but needs the cross-over rack to 'balance his feet on' whilst I want to use it.
Timothy says:
I'm always amazed at the amount of skinny or overweight people at a gym "going through the motions". It’s almost like they think that the gym is a magical place that will instantly turn them buff, but they might as well do something while they are there. Do you find the gym magical? Is that influenced by the eye candy?
Patrick says:
Well these people are probably not looking at the gym from the point of view of 'how can this place improve my strength/appearance', but rather just sort of expect that a bit of a routine will do it all for them. But hey, at least they are doing something. A bit of gym is better than no exercise.
To answer your question, of course the gym is a magical place. Dreams come true everyday, and the gym can make it happen for you. Just roll on up and the gym will do the rest. There isn't too much magical about any eye candy though. I've already seen the Eric Prydz film clip 'Call on Me'. There's nothing left for the imagination now.
What would be the top five things you like about gym?
Timothy says:
Commercial gyms;
1. Atmosphere
2. Equipment (weights, bars, cable machines)
3. Eye candy
4. Motivated lifters
5. Awe struck faces.
Home gym;
1. Hard core lifting
2. Big basics
3. Decent music
4. No egos
5. Conveniance.
Basically the commercial gym sucks the life out of training with the other trainers and trainees getting in your way physically and mentally. And the music always seems to be middle of the road crap. You can't pull a 200kg deadlift while listening to Delta Goodrem.
Patrick says:
Also- You can't pull Delta Goodrem whilst listening to a 200kg deadlift.
Timothy says:
Although I do like to see the monkey see monkey do attitude of trainees. Put up some big weights, or do a novel exercise and watch everyone else clamor to do it too. My girlfriend noticed that after I had done a wrist roller exercise all the guys at the gym were suddenly doing it. “So that’s how you get big guns!”
Patrick says:
Actually yeah, the wrist roller is a big one. You see people trying it out afterwards with puzzled looks. “You reckon this is for the bi’s?” We had one lady come up to us and ask all about it a few weeks ago actually.
Timothy says:
Was this when you were training with your "national sprint team" friend? The one who was told off for squatting too heavy by the gym trainer?
Patrick says:
Nah, another mate, but that was a funny incident. He was squatting 180 or 200kg I don't remember. But there was about four of these PT guys taking an interest at a safe distance, making comments about technique and how they were all still really number 1. Eventually we moved onto an advanced lower back squat exercise, and they sent an emissionary over from their huddle to 'set us straight' about “How bad that exercise is”, and why he was still 'the man' in this gym. Said friend corrected him citing ‘A State Athletics Coach’, to which the guy mumbled on a bit more about athletics training before making his retreat back to the huddle. He sure told us.
Any similar experiences yourself?
Timothy says:
Recently I had the privilege of a free two week membership. Best way to change up your routine. I was just getting back to being able to walk again, and hadn't trained for months. I was using the dumbbells for shoulder presses after doing some leg presses (with unimpressive weight).
My shoulder strength was still up there and I was using 35 or 37.5kg dumbbells for multiple sets of 5. The PT comes over and says “did I want some advice”. I thought he may have spotted an error in my form so I humored him. He then proceeded to advise me on how to ‘really isolate the delts’ and how I ‘should slow down the negative portion to avoid injury’. Damn near threw the DB's at him. It was quite clear that I knew what I was doing, as I was as big as he was, and I was not going to injure myself, as I had complete control of the weight. I don't train like a body builder, I'm not that narcissistic. I train movements not body parts, you get much stronger that way.
Same gym also recommended that I not hold onto the bar but rather let it rest on my palms. Same people were amazed that someone could use the big dumbbells for bench for sets of 5.
Patrick says:
You should have that, 'thanks for your advice. As you can see by the weights I am lifting, this is my first time in a gym, and I know a lot less about weights than you do'. Or maybe just say 'No'. When they try to talk again, just say 'No'. Eventually they'll walk away. Then when you've finished your set, clang the dumbbells back down heavily onto the rack, making a big noise. Then look at them and point at them, looking angry.
Timothy says:
Right on!
I know you love to bench. Is it the exercise that you feel most satisfied with? Or do you secretly love the hard work of the deadlift or squat?
Patrick says:
The thing with bench is, no matter how long I have off, I can always seem to do at least a few reps at 80kg for a fourth or fifth set. That's why I respect the bench, and it respects me. Apart from that chin-ups or lat pull downs are a favourite, as they have a lot to do with relative strength. Deadlifts are good, but finding gym space where you can do them properly, and people to do them with, can be a bit of a trial.
Timothy says:
Deadlifts are one of three exercises frowned upon in commercial chain gyms like Zest. Deads, Cleans, and Snatches (as in Olympics, not beaver, they like skimpy beaver in gyms).
As someone lifting in a commercial gym do you find a lack of hard core lifters? I mean the heavy squats, big deadlifts, dips and chins with extra weight kinda hardcore, not the grunting and psycho stuff associated with wieners trying to show off.
Patrick says:
It seems a little funny that the weights performed at Olympic level are not more popular at a day to day level. You don't see many new people come in and throw 40kg above their head 10 times, even though it would probably give them great results. Better than 14 sets of bicep curls.
Timothy says:
Only 14, you know the magic number is 22!
Patrick says:
Ah yes 22 sets of 10kg.
Olympic weightlifter showing the benefits of all those bicep curls.....
I feel a little hypocritical talking about weights at any great depth, as I have been guilty of some of the typical gym sins, like not attending regularly, looking for some quick extra bicep size...
Timothy says:
We all have, we were all beginners once, some have just grown out of that phase.
I've found that the guys with the big arms lift the big weights, regardless of what program, how many sets, what exercise. The big guys tend to also do more big exercises before the "isolation" stuff.
Do you think that with the increasing length of shorts there has been a decrease in the size of legs thus creating an increase in interest in bigger arms?
Patrick says:
Actually that's a very good point. If dudes were getting around in little shorts all the time, there'd be a lot greater interest in leg weights. There may also be a similar link to looking good whilst at crowded bars/clubs. You might see everyone's upper half all the time, but there's less emphasis on the lower half, which is looked at less. Personally I'm sorry there isn't more weight in terms of sexual attraction towards well toned calves. I've got that market cornered.
Timothy says:
Before my knee injury I had some good legs, although I never considered them huge.
I also found that shorts and pants were hard to find. 30-31 inch waist just didn't go with a 25-26 inch leg. Once, I was told by a store clerk that the shorts were too small because they clung to my legs, I thought (and the missus thought) that they fitted great.
We aren't hairy men, but we do have body hair. What do you think of the hairless body builder look?
Patrick says:
Ha, well most of them look ridiculous. They seemed to have tweaked the rules away from looking good and having great muscle definition to having huge muscles and definition, which are definitely not the same thing. If some of those guys were hairy you end up with a gorilla, not a person. I can see the emails with photo comparisons already. Here is this dude. He weighs about 150kg and he's 5'9", has 5% body fat and his testicles are 0.00000001% of his weight. Sounds like a gorilla to me. I say keep shaving or it (professional body building) will become a bigger joke.
Timothy says:
Yep. Ronnie Coleman won the Mr Olympia again this year. He is now officially Mr Shaved Gorilla!
Mr Shaved Gorilla; Ronnie Coleman.
And runner up Mr Shaved Gorilla, Gunter Sche Scer Apeman, which I think means he gets a free month in a zoo.
Do you think that pro body building is something that should be put down (shot, maimed, and confined to its bedroom) so that healthy male body image can return?
Patrick says:
I think a great idea would be to make a form of gym based around free weights and men's gymnastics. If things are measured around relative strength, i.e. being able to lift yourself off the ground, if this was made popular you'd certainly be encouraging a healthy male body image. Curl 30kg but can't do five chin-ups? Those days would be gone.
How cool would a gym be that has some Roman Rings in the corner? The gym would look like some secret training room out of a James Bond film.
Timothy says:
That would be cool.
I'm a bit miffed with the new skinny metro look. Whenever women are polled they prefer more rugged handsome men like Hugh Jackman, Mel Gibson, Pierce Brosnan, etc, instead of the hairless, muscle free, 18-25 boys portrayed in the media.
Patrick says:
The more feminine you are, the more clothes you are likely to buy, all of which you don't need. It is a good idea for media groups to portray these men in a positive light. Male vanity is another one that they ought to be pushing. Oh wait, already happening!
Someone along the way realised they were only pitching useless crap at 50% of the population.
Let them spend as much as they want on hair products and $200 jeans. It won't stop me being able to steal their women and then laughing at them.
Timothy says:
But you can market to real men. Bring back real men wearing classy stuff, and rugged wear. Create the need to be a man, not a skinny wiener boy.
Patrick says:
Yeah, but the market is a lot smaller. Remember 10 years ago? No-one used hair gel. Birth and marriage rates have remained constant, or gone down slightly. Reality: If you buy hair gel you've really been dudded.
Timothy says:
For all the male posing and the hair gel and the fashions that have come in, we (masculine, strong, sporty) seem to be the ones that intimidate. Men are always intimidated by their betters, and we always get the kudos.
Patrick says:
Well I hope so, or the carefully crafted masculine, strong and sporty image I have created for myself will come crashing down around me! Here's to hoping people find better things to do than think about fashion and hair styles.
Timothy says:
So in the end it comes down to the interesting facts;
· Lift heavy shit.
· Body building is for freaks.
· Gyms are populated by the ignorant and stupid. Don't be a monkey, educate yourself.
· Modern body image in the media doesn’t matter. At the end of the day women will choose the masculine guys.
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